For this post, I’m going to concentrate on a comma issue that can cause problems for writers. The rule I’m speaking of is the one that states nonessential elements should be separated from the rest of the sentence with commas before and after the element in question.
Unlike most other comma issues, this one involves making a judgement call, which can be a little scary. Before you can be sure if you need to use commas to set it apart from the rest of the sentence, you have to determine if the element is essential or nonessential to the meaning of the sentence.
The way you can do this is to ask yourself if the meaning of the sentence would clearly change if you remove the element in question. If you add an element to a sentence and it does not really affect that sentence’s fundamental meaning, you know that the creature you are dealing with is nonessential to the sentence and, therefore, needs to be set apart from the rest of the sentence with commas before and after.
Examples:
Lucy, who is John’s sister, is planning on meeting us out for coffee later.
In the above sentence, the fact that Lucy happens to be John’s sister has nothing to do with the fundamental meaning of the sentence, which is that she is meeting us for coffee later.
The man who arrested her is my brother-in-law.
In the above sentence, the phrase in the center of the sentence, “who arrested her” is an essential piece of information that would change the whole meaning of the sentence if we removed it.
So, as you can see, even though it does require a little bit of judgement, it really isn’t all that difficult to make the distinction. The main thing is just to be aware of the rule. If you keep it in mind, it won’t sneak up and bite you.
Also, I thought it only fair to tell everyone that today is the day that my family is getting together to move my brother and his family into they’re new home. Because I’ll be helping them move most of the day, I might not be the most responsive to comments until later on. I just wanted to mention this and apologize in advance. I don’t want anyone out there in WG2E land to think that I’m ignoring them.
Happy writing!
Thanks for this. I hope you do a ton more posts about commas. They seem to have become the bane of my writing existence. When my sister helps edit my stories, she ends up shoving hundreds of commas in.
I agree, Kirsten, commas are my nightmare!
Thanks so much for sharing!
Mine, too.
Thanks, Kirsten.
what happens with me is, sometimes i add (or not add) commas to mimic my thought pattern of pauses stops starts etc
then, when i re-read later to edit, my pattern preference has changed
and i then remove or add commas
i like the idea of essential vs inessential, and am gonna see about applying that idea in regard to reflecting intonation
thanks so much, very interesting
Hi, Adan.
I think that is a fairly common thing for a writer to do.
Exactly this, Adan…although, not till you wrote this comment did I finally understand how I use commas too.
I actually read my work out loud before I send it to The Edit Dude, and maybe that’s how or why I’m butchering my commas…because I simply add them when I pause reading.
What an Aha Moment.
And yes, I know all the rules, but they don’t seem very reader-friendly or inflection-friendly at times.
yea, i tilt reader friendly cause that’s the way i like to read stuff myself
what’s weird is like on the second or third reading, i feel a different inflection cause i’m feeling differently, even if slightly! but i say weird and and really mean kinda fun
like edit dude above says, kinda common for writers; maybe more so for fiction / poetry folk?
eventually, if the commas help the flow i want, i keep them, if they don’t, out they go
i hadn’t realized i had replies, so my apologies; is there an option to be notified of replies?
thanks so much d.d., & mr edit
Handy tips – thanks, Edit Dude. Commas trip me up sometimes — especially with the whole ‘Oxford comma’ debate.
Thanks, Talli.
I almost did the Oxford comma this time. I think that will be next time.
Edit Dude! Where have you been? Excellent tips. Wish my college English profs. could have explained things so simply! The way you explain is the way I was taught, but some English profs. seem to think they have to explain it like they’re explaining the how to make an A-bomb. Commas can be tricky and I look forward to more.
Ha!
This is terrific, Edit Dude!
And wow what a perfect example of why u r such a wonderful freelance editor…you teach us how to be better writers in very easy-to-understand ways.
I get so tickled when you give us something like this & I can then go back to my current manuscript and know exactly what to do!
Thank u!!!
Enjoy moving day!!!
Thanks, D!
Thanks, Edit Dude! Hope your muscles aren’t too sore after a day of moving! Enjoyed the post.
Thanks, Tamara!
Ahhhh, commas! How have I loved thee? With thy permission, I shall enumerate the ways. Ok, maybe not. Great post, Edit Dude. I am going to show a bit of my inner nerd, but I love reading about grammar and punctuation. There, i said it! I am not sorry!
Oh, and have a great moving day!
Thanks, Greg.
There’s no reason to be ashamed. Let that nerd flag fly!
In the first sentence, the word ‘out’ is not necessary.
Patg
Excellent observation. I was just trying to make it sound casual and conversational, but that little ‘out’ is by no means ‘essential’ to that sentence.
Thanks for the info, and I know most of us agree, it is very helpful! Was that correct?
I run into places that give me problems as well, and the one you mentioned was very important.
Sharon
Actually, I would have written your first sentence like this:
“Thanks for the info. I know most of us agree that it is very helpful.”
Heh.
Great tip! Call me the Comma Queen, in one read through I put them in, the next take them out. This will force me to use the rules, not my reading rhythm, to insert the handy little comma.
Thanks, Nancy. I hope it was helpful.
Another great piece of advice from a great guy! Good luck helping with your borhter’s move, remember use your legs not your back when picking up heavy things:)
Thanks, Lois! The move went well.
I think this is one comma rule that I do have down cold. ( I think ) LOL.
Thanks for these posts!
That’s great, Liz.
Commas are a pain. And I agree. You have done a good job in giving us a lesson on it. An easy to understand one.
Thank you Edit Dude! Commas are the bane of my existence!
Heh. Happy to help.
Hi Edit Dude
I’ve just stumbled across this site enlightening stuff on a slow Sunday morning.
We were taught that commas were used at a point where you would pause for a short breath, shorter than at the end of a sentence. Personally I have tended to use my intuition, for better or worse, in the use of commas. However yours is the first useful definitive description of the usage (ugly word sorry) of a comma that I have come across in nearly sixty years – nice one – goes to prove you are never to old to learn something new, thanks.
Now you’ve got me doubting whether I should have put in that last comma.
Thank you, Antony. That might be the nicest comment I’ve ever seen.
I highly recommend that every author have a copy of the CMS. 16th edition is out.
It’s not just about commas, guys. As wordsmiths, we all must learn the tools of our trade. And that means going back to the basics. We need to go learn all that nasty grammar we were taught as children.
We are the written communicators, and as such, we must be experts in our chosen field. We can understand every comma rule, but if we do not understand the foundation upon which the comma rests, then we open ourselves to a host of problems.
Therefore, it is imperative that we learn why our sentences have too many commas, misplaced commas, lack of conjunctions between independent clauses, and why we are creating too many loose sentences.
It is much more an issue of studying the foundation of our trade in order to apply our unique writing style first. Then, we learn when to apply the comma. If we do not study the foundation, then we are only applying the band-aid of punctuation, which emphasizes our strength, or lack thereof, of authorship.
I’m so happy that you mentioned the Chicago Manual of Style. I base my edits on the CMS. Your comment was on the money.
There is no way I could cover all grammatical issues involving the comma in one post.
I’m just hoping to address micro issues with each one. Heh
I had an interesting discussion with my (engineer) husband about whether commas indicated pauses/emphasis in writing or they actually changed the meaning of the sentence. He maintained that they were related to how we would say the sentence. If found myself going back to ‘Let’s eat, Grandma’ vs. “Let’s eat Grandma.” and discussing direct address versus direct objects. The conversation devolved to independent clauses and depended ones and beyond.
When I started editing and then proofing my first (indie) novel I went to Purdue’s On Line Writing Lab and started studying commas. I wrote myself a cheat sheet on their correct usage and referred to it constantly. Previously I was an ‘intuitive’ comma user and I got it right often. Armed with the correct rule I started to see places my writing was less clear because of comma errors.
The thing that drives me nuts is the judgement call stuff. Unfortunately what I tend to see as unessential doesn’t always match up with what the rest of the world calls unessential and vice-versa. That makes me scream.
Excellent comment. I agree. The “judgement call stuff” is the worst. Just give me a rule and let me follow it.
I know exactly where you are coming from.
It was a great post! I love how clear you made the distinction between essential and non-essential. The comma rules frighten many a writer.
You must’ve been in a hurry, though; your brother and family are moving into “their” new home, not “they’re” new home. I hope “they’re” enjoying their new home, and that you are recovering from lifting their belongings!
I was in a bit of a hurry, but “their new home” is correct.
“They’re new home” would have ben short for: “They are/were new home.”
Just saying. I can relate to having a brain-glich moment. We all have them. Actually, I think I might just be the king of them. Heh.
Whoops. I’m showing my ability to be brain-glitch boy. I obviously meant “…would have BEEN short for…”
Sorry. I hope not to subject you all to any more unfortunate misspellings.
Oh my goodness.
It just occurred to me that I wrote “they’re” instead of “their.”
Wow.
Yeah.
A third-grader could have caught that. I’m feeling pretty crappy.
Damn.
Can’t believe I did that. Maybe even an editor needs an editor for his posts.