Please give a warm welcome to WG2E Guest – DV Berkom – who’s got a fabulous post for our WG2E Write Well Series!
Take it away, DV…
I’ve seen the word strike fear into the hearts of many beginning writers and those well-seasoned. The bad can leave you writhing in agony. The good is worth its weight in gold.
Yes, I’m talking about critique groups.
The first thing to know about critique groups is it all depends on who’s doing the critiquing. Unless you have masochistic tendencies, DO NOT give your first attempt at a fantasy novel to a librarian who prefers hardboiled mysteries, friend though she may profess to be (I still remember the red ink- as though blood streamed across the pages, pooling at midpoint…)
Alternately, you should run like the wind if the person to whom you were thinking of handing your opus says something along the lines of, “I normally don’t like to read, but I’d have a go at your stuff…”
You’ll want to carefully vet those you allow first access to your babies. Make sure they have at least one of the following qualities before taking the critique plunge:
- They’re well-read, preferably in more than one genre. If not, they’re never going to understand why you can’t make your international thriller involving Al Qaida operatives a sweet little romance…
- They should know the difference between the following lines: “You could drive a truck through this freaking plot hole” and, “The plot could use a little more clarification here” or, “You might want to rethink this section because…”
- Knowledge of the Oreo cookie style of critique: indicate where their writing needs work and why (the cookie part), add something praiseworthy (the delicious filling), followed again by mentioning something that needs fixing (cookie again). Note: this style of critique has been described where praise is the cookie part, but in my experience too much nice doesn’t work.
- It helps if they’re writers themselves, as they’ll understand the torture you put yourself through in order to write a coherent sentence
- A person with access to a chef or well-stocked wine cellar is a huge plus and may trump any the above
You might be lucky enough to find a group of writers at varying levels of mastery who will be as vested in your work as you are. It’s possible. I’m living proof.
My critique group consists of a core of four writers. Each delves into different genres: one writes sweet, romantic short stories, erotica and full-length paranormal. Another prefers Christian and contemporary romance. The third writes time-travel romance and thrillers. I write mystery/suspense and thrillers, with a little satire thrown in for good measure. We’ve been together for years and have gone through several metamorphoses. Discussions are interesting, to say the least.
Unpublished when we first came together, we are now all published; e-press, self-published, or traditionally, and all are selling well. We’ve seen each other through rejections, acceptances, good and bad reviews, deaths, financial struggles and everything in between. They’re the first to read anything I write and I value their input enormously. Where else will someone tell you, “You can’t kill them like that. Here’s how I’d do it…”
The cohesiveness of the group didn’t happen overnight and we’ve had a couple of other members come and go, but the four of us have persevered. Discussion can get pretty heated over things like description, character motivation and backstory, but in the end, everyone cares and that’s what counts.
When you find a group like that, the dreaded c-word isn’t quite so dreadful.
What About You, WG2E-Land Peeps? Tell us about your C Word Experiences — DV Berkom
DVBerkom.com Action. Adventure. Suspense.
DV Berkom is no stranger to reading and writing fast-paced, exciting stories. Having grown up on a steady diet of spy novels, James Bond movies and mysteries, her natural inclination is to keep the reader on the edge of their seats and guessing until the last page.
She grew up in the Midwest, received her BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota and promptly moved to Mexico to live on a sailboat. Several years and at least a dozen moves later, she now lives outside of Seattle, Washington with her sweetheart Mark, an ex-chef-turned-contractor, and writes whenever she gets a chance.
I tried several critique groups, but I find I enjoy flushing a story out myself before I get feedback. I keep a good momentum and am able to finish writing the novel in 3 months if left alone. Therefore I enjoy doing ‘beta’ read switches. That way I review their entire novel and they review mine. As an author you have to figure out how you best work. Some authors need a critique group to help them flush out ideas and to stay motivated. When you find a good one, stick with it.
Good point, LM! It took me a couple of tries to find the right mix of crit-peeps. The first attempt was NOT a good experience. I understand the momentum thing–I don’t usually stop and wait for my group to critique the work, so that isn’t a problem for me. I also use betas once the manuscript is finished. It’s all good.
Thanks for stopping by!
My critique partners and I write different romance genres, but we collaborate so well, we even share a website – http://www.threewritersofromance.com. The blessing of our group is that we all have different strengths. I scene block well, Janice is a great “ideas” person (she makes me stories so much richer), and Darlene has an amazing knack for knowing when I’m not being true to my characters.
We came together quite by accident, but I wouldn’t trade them for the world!
Exactly! Glad to hear you’ve found the right fit. You know what they say–a good crit partner is hard to find… or something like that
Welcome DV! I have also been in a critique group for the past several years- and they are my peers, beta readers, friends…- I feel lucky that I have found the right group:) Sounds like you have as well!
I’m thankful every day for the experience, Lois! Thanks for stopping by!
Great post DV. I miss the critique I was in back in the late 1980s and early 1990s and with I could find another one. They are invaluable I think and so very helpful. I am one who needs someone to brainstorm my stories with; what if I write it this way, then what, or if I go this way with it, what do you think. Thank you and much continued success for you.
Thanks, Jacqueline! I love brainstorming with the group–it’s so much more fun than doing it on my own
I know there are some online groups that are supposed to be good, if you can’t find one in your area. I think I would miss the face time, though (ok, and the food and cocktails…LOL)
I’ve joined a local group of mostly unpublished writers & poets.(I write what I’m calling adventure murder mysteries with eco-environmental contexts.) There is one member that has a thing against -ing, which I will admit I use too much. I know my writing annoys him, but I realize that he is right at least half the time, so I try to reach a compromise in my use of the “offending” style. I find that the feed back is valuable and am not at all upset by their red marks. I take what I want & ignore the rest!
Good for you, Charlotte! It’s always your call. It IS your story
But having an open mind really helps the writing, IMHO. I’ve been floored by some of the insights from my group.
Thanks for the comments!
Great post. I am just starting to put a critique group together and this was very helpful.
Glad to be of service, Leti! Good luck to you and your group!
Great overview of critique groups. Especially the wine cellar part
I’m lucky enough to be in a good critique group too. The people who are most useful in giving critiques are the ones who are not in my genre, but take a professional, no-nonsense approach and aren’t afraid to say when something isn’t working. A few members have drifted into writing long literary prose poems, and I’ve had to give up telling them about inciting incidents, plots and antagonists, because they’re not really interested in writing commercially viable fiction. But they’re very useful for picking up cliches and overused words. The key is finding out what each member’s goal is in asking for critique. The most important thing of all is the support we all give each other as we make our way in this essentially lonely profession.
Thanks, Anne! I’m sure I don’t know where I’d be without the support of these fine ladies. You’re right on about the lonely profession part, IF you don’t make the effort to get out there and network.
Thanks for stopping by
I joined one writers group, one time. I know it was probably atypical, but it did make me hesitant to join any others. They conducted themselves more high school cliques, than anything else. As far as I could tell, the only reason they were interested in new members, was because we each paid a fee (fair, because they had costs like rental of the meeting room, etc.) to join and it decreased their cost burden. Certainly, in the time I belonged, no one ever even touched one of my books, so it certainly was criticism that drove me away. The core members all wanted us to read and critique their books, but weren’t interested in reciprocating. Then about 3-4 months in the leadership came up for changeout (they had a leadership, for money / meeting / and other) management. When the swap was made, the Treasurer from the previous year did not want to turn over any of the remaining funds (i.e., sign over the group’s bank account). Much drama, didn’t wait to see if it developed into a decent mystery plot, because it wasn’t what I had been looking for.
Ugh–that sounds awful, SK. I think the size of our group (4-6) is plenty big to get differing points of view, and the only ‘fee’ we pay is making dinner for everyone on a rotating basis, or, if you’re not the host, bringing libations. I’m not much for structured groups, so your experience sounds like something I’d rather avoid. Especially the clique-iness of it. I left high school a loooooong time ago
Thanks for your comments!
That sounds really nice.
What a terrific post DV!
Concise and full of good information.
I hope my comment isn’t too long!
I’m a new author, so I’m going to share my very recent experience with getting a Critique Group, or Beta Readers- I’m not at the level where I’m able to distinguish between the two, and I’m not sure if it’s necessary for my needs.
The first thing is my Life Partner, Desmond X. Torres has been at my side from the very start when I began my journey as an indie author. He’s smart, funny, and loves me enough to tell me the truth when something isn’t working. He was my first editor, and he was the first person to point out that we needed a real editor after we published my first novel.
After we put it up (and entered it in Amazon’s Breakthrough Novel Award where it made it into the second round), he took over the marketing and we had it reviewed by over 30 bloggers. A few of the reviews were scathing, which hurt at first until my skin thickened up, but most were… well, to tell the truth, sweet. Those gals read Romance books like crazy, and they knew I was a ‘virgin author’. They pointed out the weak spots I missed (and Desmond too, and because he’s so smart, it IS all his fault! LOL ), but a couple were incredible reviews.
So what we did was approach the bloggers that had the most insightful reviews and ask them to Beta read my second novel. Their response surprised me. None of them had ever been asked by an author to do so, but if you were to have read their blogs, they were as good a reviewer as any professional book review I ever read.
So right now, four gals, around the world- in the USA, Canada, Australia and Europe are reading my second novel, and I ought to get back their comments and markups in about ten days or so. After I go over their suggestions and apply the fixes they suggest that I agree with, it goes off to my editor- another wonderful woman who’s blog I came across and follow every day.
Their investing their time, experience, and smarts in helping me tell better stories. And hopefully, develop my second career. Words can’t describe how deeply I appreciate them right now for that. And as a writer, that statement says it all, doesn’t it?
My second novel went through two full re-writes, which means three drafts before I sent it out to my Concerned Readers. It will be re-drafted again when I apply their suggestions, and then another time after the editor finishes with it. THEN I’ll put it up, and repeat the same process with the third and final book in the series, which is currently in its third draft.
And then I’ll probably go back and do the same process with my first novel. I know it could be better, and now I’ve learned how to go about making that happen.
After all I’ve read here on the web about traditional publishing, I’ll be going the Indie route with my books. It’s been one busy, exciting time for me so far! And I started my first book on June 6th of last year. No wonder I don’t watch TV anymore!
Is my process similar to yours DV?
Again, thanks for such a great post!
Awesome post, KD! It sounds like you’ve found some wonderful, helpful people to work with on your writing journey. I have a similar process–I write a couple of drafts before the crit partners see it, get their feedback, then revise; then off to the first set of betas (first cold readers), revise after I get that back; then, if there were large issues with the first betas, I run it through another set of readers for their feedback. THEN, it goes to my editor, I revise with her suggestions, then at least ONE more read-through and it goes up. The ms usually goes through 5-6+ revisions before I publish.
Good luck, KD! Sounds like you’re on your way
Very valuable informations on that subject, thank you very much and if you want more info on how to self-publish on amazon kindle, click here :http:// http://www.publishonamazonkindle.org , lots of information I found there…have a nice day!
I was in a very good in-person critique group in the 80s. We all worked very well together. Then in the 90s, I was in two on-line critique group, one that worked, except for one person, and one that didn’t. I don’t think the people in the second one “got” my books (I write sweet contemporary romantic comedy now, but back then, it was mainstream). They didn’t get my sense of humor, they hated the name of the fictional town where I set the book (which was kind of written in stone because it got published). Now I’m on my own, but I kind of wish I had had someone to go over Book 2 of my “Practically Perfect Heroes” series, because the hero didn’t come across the way I wanted him to.
Like LM Preston, I prefer a beta reader after I’ve done a couple of revisions on my draft. My first drafts really are horrible and I don’t like stopping to polish a chapter for critique during the original writing. However, I’ve only found one beta reader who meets my needs so far and could certainly use more.
I’ve been in several critique groups and I think the hardest things to get are commitment and perseverance. My first critique group was probably the best. We were all unpublished, had guidelines we worked by, and lasted over a year. Two others didn’t work out.
I very recently joined a new critique group and we’re going through the usual stages of a new group. The first month, most members were excited to be doing this and wanted to submit selections that were too long too frequently. We’ve had two members drop out and one new member join.
I truly wish I could find that team of beta readers or, at least, a critique group that would last more than a year. Every writer needs feedback, so I’ll keep trying.
My Edit Demons critique group meets every other week to edit a few sacrificial chapters on the altar of good writing at a local Starbucks (for free). We morphed out of NaNoWriMo and follow up the critique group with a writing support group, so we have a range from lurkers who listen to published authors who do high-end editing. It works really well as our attitude is we take what you write from where you are, and then provide feedback to make it better, but everybody works their butt off to revise. Then 1x per month we meet at one of our houses for a ‘social’ evening to eat, drink, and play RPG Role-Playing storytelling games. No fees required. The secret to a free meeting place is to make sure critique partners understand we need to guzzle ungodly amounts of overpriced Starbucks coffee for the three hours we are there and thank our hosts on the way out the door.
i like your approach, Anna. I think a good core group that is small, with people you trust, is a great way to do it. And the once a month social evening sounds like a blast! I am going to mention that to my group.
There are three of us in my critique group… memoirs, fantasies, contemporary western romances. We’ve been together over a year, meet once a week, and get on great!! I tried other, larger groups where there was never time to really get acquainted with the other writers. I think our reasonably close acquaintance contributes greatly to the effectiveness of our group.
I say stay small and get to know each other.
I have been in large writers groups and small ones over the years. I have had an eviserating critical experience similar to D.D. Scott’s RWA national nightmare….but on a more local level in a regional group, and it still gives me shivers. Having one’s work laughed at and made fun of in a public forum is not helpful, nor does it build confidence in a writer.
I have also had many positive experiences with informal writing fellowships, small groups of four like minded writers. Those small, intimate groups have given me great feedback, and critiques designed to help improve a WIP and not just tear down ‘because we can’. I would caution writers, escpecially new writers to not just blindly and trustingly give their work to a group to critique without getting to know the people a little and what kind of books they read, and their level of experience in writing. It is easy to tear down someone elses work, but it takes time, effort and determination to read a piece and look for ways to help the author bring out the best in the characters and plot. The former hang out at writers groups and troll for victims to make themselves appear superior. The latter are harder to find, but worth their weight in gold. Those encouraging, yet honest critique partners are the ones I want on my team and I strive to be that kind of partner for my peeps—to help the writer achieve the best in a work.